September 3, 2008

Sweetcron is looking like Sweetcrap

Posted by : Mike Fruchter
Filed under : lifestreaming, rss, social media

Sweetcron is the latest new shiny toy in self-hosted lifestreaming. Sweetcrons main selling point is the ability to store your lifestreaming data on your own server,and on your own domain. There was much awaited anticipation of this application. It has garnered lots of publicity for the past few months. I finally installed Sweetcron and took it for a test drive..

I was extremely unimpressed. The hype sold me, but that’s about the only thing that I can say will sell me about this application, or at least in its current stages.

Most of us who attempt to set up self-hosted lifestreams must be comfortable with php, and for the most part, rely on plugins in conjuncture with some type of blogging platform, usually wordpress. While I expected Sweetcron to be so much more, it’s pretty much a stripped down wordpress blog with tags and the capability of importing rss. In it’s current state it does not look very secure. The php scripts running it, look off the shelf and possibly highly exploitable.

It’s in pretty rough shape: nowhere near a 1.0 release. The architecture and design decisions come off as amateurish as well. I wouldn’t trust it with my data. - Mark Trapp

I agree with Mark Trapp’s comment quoted above, from this FriendFeed thread. I also would be very cautious of the data you input into Sweetcron at its present stages. This application needs some serious development. It could be your own personal FriendFeed, without the friends, but it’s simply not.

What Sweetcron does have going for them is the fact it’s open source and easily customizable. At least now, others can improve on this application where Sweetcron seems to have failed.

Under the hood, it runs on php and mysql. Setting it up was relatively easy. Create your database, modify your php files and it’s installed.  The control panel is so bare-bones it could not be any more basic.

The dashboard is minimal. It’s pretty self explanatory from the screen shot. You can do 3 things here.

  1. Write: Post directly to your lifestream
  2. View Items: Delete, edit, unpublish/publish.
  3. Feeds: Add or delete rss feeds.

You can also post directly to your lifestream. I guess this could be useful if you were extremely bored. This is what Twitter is for. This sort of defeats the purpose since you more then likely would have tweets imported in via rss.

This is your options page, or should I say lack of options page.

Last but not least, Smartcron has a link for comments, but failed to implement a commenting system. It’s great they suggest using Disqus for comments, but after all this application is built on mysql and php! Commenting could have been easily implemented.

At this stage in the game, there is nothing to see here folks. My advice is if your looking for a service like this, set up a self-hosted wordpress blog, and customize it.

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Viewing 11 Comments

    • ^
    • v
    Hrrmm...

    Why not back up your claims of it being "possibly exploitable" with some actual evidence. I'd be interested to see that. No system is perfect - Wordpress too has had its fair share of exploits.

    Seems like you're just ranting for the sake of it right now (this is an ugly trait in conversational blogging - say something bad about something that gets positive press because if you do you're guaranteed pageviews; and one of the very reasons why I feel the personal blog is dying - people are just out to get their content noticed).

    At this stage I'm really happy with Sweetcron. It's exactly what I set out to create - an extensible platform that can help you to manage feeds, import items and display them nicely in a theme of your (or someone else's) creation. You could probably write some kind of massive, convoluted plugin that does the same for Wordpress, but you'd still have Wordpress as your base, which I think for personal publishing provides a whole lot of bloated stuff that lifestreamers don't need. Sweetcron is clean, based on a standard MVC architecture (Wordpress is proprietary) and people have started jumping right in and customising it, despite my pretty piss-poor attempt at documentation :) Wordpress has the benefit of a pedigree of tens of thousands of people who understand how to hack it to death. Sweetcron will have that in time ;)

    You make an interesting point on commenting - that's *exactly* the kind of bloated functionality that I think is better left to specialised 3rd parties such as Disqus. With Wordpress, if I want to update the comment functionality, or if there is some kind of new comment exploit going around, I'm going to have to download an upgrade and upload it. This is a tedious process. By outsourcing all this functionality you gain the benefit of a team (disqus) who spend 24 hours a day making sure you are using the most current, most effective software for that particular purpose. I made a blog post about this and you should take a look at it:

    http://www.yongfook.com/post/view/69/10-reasons...

    And actually it looks like you kind of agree with me - you're using disqus on your blog!

    After using Wordpress for a very, very long time I found that being able to manage comments in the CMS was not as high a value proposition as outsourcing the functionality to a team who are producing great software (a la disqus) with better commenting functionality than Wordpress supports by default. For that reason I think there is no point in *any* personal publishing software these days having support for some kind of proprietary commenting system as long as tools like disqus exist - lets just benefit from the hard work of teams who work night and day to solve a specific problem.

    Cheers
    Jon
    • ^
    • v
    I'm not self hosted (yet) but all the choices of various plug-ins, templates, designs, etc., is just way too much information overload for me. I'm currently using a Wordpress.com hosted blog and the admin panel is terrible! The formatting takes FOREVER so I use myselfl finding the WYSIWYG editor. I also agree with the creator's suggestion of Disqus -- given there's Disquis community, too. Though I do agree, PHP is a tad intimidating for me. I can't wait to get mine up and running. Thanks for this piece, Mike :)
    • ^
    • v
    I thought it was ok. Nothing grand I'd tell someone to use it. But after "using" it for a while, I agree that you'd be better off just skinning your own WP theme where you can just add lifestream widgets instead.

    An "A" for effort but the final grade I'd give a "C-".
    • ^
    • v
    I have to say I disagree. I think that Yongfook created a great self hosted platform. The developer has stated that he was not trying to create another Wordpress-esk blog platform. Like you said this platform is super customizable which makes it a great technical project not a mainstream platform, exactly what the developer meant to create. I set it up for fun and it was very easy, and I'm happy with the result.
    http://ryanagraves.com/sweetcron
    • ^
    • v
    Sweetcron works for the most part for me. I haven't seen any obviously exploitable code. I did have to hack some parts. Word limiting which didn't work for Japanese text so I ended up with items that were too big in the lifestream. How the block types (images, link, etc) needed to be tweaked in code as it was specific to digg.com (if you don't use twitter then you'll need to tweak that too). Any item with a photo was marked as a photo block, even external blog posts. Anyway, It could use some polish but it works ok and the concept is good. Timewise it was better for me than writing it myself.
    • ^
    • v
    things "appearing" as photos etc when you don't want them to be is entirely because of the theme. There is a rule in the theme that says "if the item has a photo, display it as a photo box" - in your case you just need to get a bit more granular and say "do the above, but only if it is from a specific domain", which you can do using the API.

    In retrospect, the Boxy But Good theme that everyone loves so much is an inappropriate theme to bundle with the download because everyone expects it to be able to display every type of web service available, right out of the box. Naturally, you have to tweak the them to your liking.

    I'm deprecating the existing Boxy theme soon.

    :/
    • ^
    • v
    i like it. does what i want it to do. wordpress is too bloated for my tastes. i don't need or want all the stuff it does. the fact that sweetcron grabs my activity across the web, allows me to make blog posts (a bit more extensive than tweets) and isn't a hacked up bloated cow is a good thing.
    • ^
    • v
    Including the theme as is in sweetcron was fine. It wasn't set as the default theme anyway. It's a good theme and is partly responsible for making sweetcron popular.

    I realize that the development was mostly done for your site in the first place but, the boxy but good theme could have some more sensible default behavior rather than the setup from your website ;)
    • ^
    • v
    I'm very happy with Sweetcron so far. Easy to install, easy to configure, and easy to theme (although i haven't gotten around to it yet). Yongfook's done a wonderful job.
    • ^
    • v
    i found sweetcron to be quite easy to use and set up and i kind of agree with going with DISQUS as it avoids the problems with the spam bots exploiting the commenting box and posting useless links as ive had that problem with joomla commenting scripts before..

    granted my site looks a lot like yongfooks (yongfook if you read this.. hope you dont mind) but thats cuz i havent really customized the template yet or cant find templates yet for sweet cron but given enough time.. u might be able to find templates for sweetcron.. or ill just customize it myself.. but its a good software for automated blogging... especially in the boxy theme...
    • ^
    • v
    I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you on this one.

    First, you're comparing it to WordPress. That's exactly what it's _not_ supposed to be. In terms of functionality, Yongfook has done what so many developers fail to do: focus on a few key features, and leave the rest out.

    But if you're in the mood to add functionality, PHP developers can take comfort in the fact that Sweetcron sits on top of CodeIgniter, one of the cleanest, lightweight PHP frameworks I've had the pleasure of working with (and I've worked with quite a few...). If that's what you meant by "off the shelf", then I think you're missing something. Why _wouldn't_ you want to release a codebase that hundreds (thousands?) of developers can easily grok? Without even running the app, I noticed that the config.php and database.php files weren't set up yet (something every CI dev just kind of instinctually _does_ when starting a new app), so I did that, and the thing ran the first time I opened it in my browser. Just one example of how using a standard base only helps Sweetcron.

    My opinion is, Sweetcron is what you want to make of it. Yongfook has done a decent job of implementing the boring bits - namely, the admin/import (well, I think that's the fun part, but nobody likes developing an admin area that no one but you will see). The theme file layout is super-simple, and really, you should be making your own anyhow. The new Sandbox theme (at least, I assume it's new since this post was written) goes a long way in demonstrating the data and methods available to you, and since it's reg'lar old PHP, and NOT some Smarty-crap, it's a quick job.

    My only, only complaint... is that there's no nice way to extend it without hacking in the core. Modifying the core isn't necessarily a terrible thing, but it prevents sharing these extensions with other people, as Yongfook has expressed concern in sharing core modifications due to potential upgrade problems. I can understand _why_ he'd do that: I'd want the module system to have a self-contained MVC layout, which would potentially require modifying the CodeIgniter core - not desirable if Yongfook hopes to keep Sweetcron running on the latest-and-greatest CI without modification.

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  • September 3, 2008 at 3:02 am Kyle Lacy
    Love the title man
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:05 am Andrew Trinh
    I like how it changes to Smartcorn towards the end.
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:07 am Marko Bon
    Liked - just for the title, Mike ;)
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:08 am Mona N.
    Now I'm glad I waited to register a domain. I get to see / hear both sides. Thanks for the write up, Mike :)
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:10 am Mo Kargas
    Good post, I do agree with a few points, especially the commenting
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:12 am Mark Trapp
    Oh man, I was quoted. The sweetcrononauts are going to come after me! Excellent write up, glad to see not everyone drank the kool aid.
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:12 am Pete Delucchi
    The examples I've seen of sweetcron looked like tabloids from the grocery store check-out, but with your own personal nonsense inside instead of awesome stories about three-headed hellhounds from outerspace; I agree, unimpressed
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:13 am Andrew Trinh
    I don't mind using Disqus at all but Sweetcron could have had the option for those not comfortable with setting up another system. It's only a new piece of code being produced by one person (?), additionally it's open-source.
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:15 am Mark Trapp
    So what if it's open source? Are you going to fix the problems? Do you know someone who will? Why contribute to an open source project for a mediocre offering when you can just as easily put your time and resources to making a better version of the product and not be limited to this false start?
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:17 am Outsanity
    lol @ Smartcron
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:19 am (jeff)isageek
    great title
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:21 am Andrew Trinh
    A beta is what it is after all, if you don't want to see a limited product then don't use it until it's fully functional and released. When it is, then criticise it. Even when it is, if you're unwilling to fix it yourself because you can't be bothered or just unable to then it's a bit hard to complain since it's a free piece of software.
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:22 am Mark Trapp
    Andrew: it was released as a 1.0 release. It's nowhere near that. At some point even open source projects have to commit to a release and stand up to criticism.
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:24 am Mona N.
    Andrew, people will always complain for the sake of complaining. We see it all the time w/ Twitter and Gmail, etc. It's always easier to point out the bad, than the good :). I already stated why SweetCron is fit for - ME - and I'm lucky to have friends who are graphic artists and proficient in PHP who're willing to help. Also, PHP is popular in Asia.
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:24 am Soulhuntre
    Yeah, I installed it but frankly I'm not impressed. All I really need is something that will locally mirror my Friendfeed. Why would I import all my feeds in sweetcron and deal with all the double post issues.
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:26 am Mona N.
    For the UI, Soulhuntre. I have tons of non-Internet savvy friends who would much rather keep up with life by looking at pictures. To each their own :)
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:27 am ♫ Rahsheen™
    I have to say I liked this post. I agree with some of the points and it does give me a better outlook on sweetcron vs. wordpress. I still like sweetcron, though. Probably cuz I like hacking stuff. I wasn't really looking for a finished product :)
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:27 am Mark Trapp
    It's must be so much easier to write people's opinions off as complaining for the sake of complaining than to respond rationally to their objections.
  • September 3, 2008 at 3:50 am Donato (ricin)
    Yes, it needs work. Yes, the code base is very messy. No, it really isn't anywhere near v1.x. Yes, I'm going to continue using it. It's a start, and I like the direction.
  • September 3, 2008 at 5:07 am yongfook
    Donato > woah, woah, woah. Messy? Have you actually looked at the code? Everything is written in standard php classes, is object-oriented and made with love. Is there anything specific that you found messy, or do you not understand OOP?
  • September 3, 2008 at 6:40 am Donato (ricin)
    My main reason for calling it messy is because of the templates; which, to be fair, is mostly because of CI itself. I know there are already threads about using Smarty with CI, which would be nice. BTW, thanks for all the work you've done. The point of my last comment was that I like it and I don't think it's fair to completely write it off so soon.
  • September 3, 2008 at 12:07 pm yongfook
    Donato > the templates are standard HTML markup with minimal logic, about the same as Wordpress. what's the problem exactly? are you complaining that you can't use some kind of weird, proprietary smarty-style short tags to echo out things? I didn't build that into sweetcron because I think that's, well, weird and proprietary. There's an API for you to use that uses the standard php object/method format. What's the point of creating an entirely new language a la smarty tags?
  • September 3, 2008 at 1:39 pm Mike Fruchter
    Yongfook, thank you for your comments. I will publish some additional thoughts on this today.
  • September 3, 2008 at 1:41 pm Caleb Elston
    They really have some stiff competition, with FriendFeed and others having such great API's
  • September 3, 2008 at 1:50 pm Winston Teo
    Personally, I haven't tried Sweetcron but I like the UI from screenshots seen so far. But then, I don't want to contend with the problem of Sweetcron or FF..
  • September 3, 2008 at 2:01 pm Capn' One-Eye ☠
    "At this stage in the game, there is nothing to see here folks." Cool. looking forward to the next iteration or the iteration after that.
  • September 3, 2008 at 2:04 pm felix
    I can definitely see the appeal of Sweetcron to some folks - a customizable view into the personal stream is pretty interesting. I'm curious to know some examples of what architectural decisions come off as amateurish? Given it's pretty simple mandate, I'd have expected a pretty streamlined codebase.
  • September 3, 2008 at 4:11 pm Donato (ricin)
    Yongfook, there isn't a problem. I'm not complaining that you should change it, not at all. It's merely opinion.

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